Episode 9: Inspiration Porn and Playboy - Transcript
CA: [00:00:00] Hey, Teamsters I'm Carey Ann
AE: [00:00:16] and I'm Alison, and this is podcast without an audience
CA: [00:00:19] where Two friends, pick two topics and find intersectionality
AE: [00:00:23] or not
CA: [00:00:25] this week, I think is going to be the not, I think so.
AE: [00:00:28] I think so.
CA: [00:00:29] I feel really. Super excited about my topic, but I'm curious to see if we're
AE: [00:00:34] going to be able to do it.
I will know once you say yours and then I'll spend all of yours thinking about intersectionality. Yeah.
CA: [00:00:41] Just like I spend all of yours thinking about intersection. Exactly. We really make a great team.
AE: [00:00:47] It's just so I can't help, but notice that you're rocking another fantastic crop top, drop top, as well as a pod without an aud
CA: [00:00:59] tumbler.
It is gorgeous and really cool and sparkly.
AE: [00:01:04] If you have not seen this on our Instagram shoot over there, you'll see Carey Ann on a balcony with her crop top drop top holding this large, very lovely phalic tunneler.
CA: [00:01:18] It's beautiful. So thank you so much for my belated birthday gifts
AE: [00:01:23] Welcome. Yes, girl. Happy birthday.
You are. A month later I, 30 years old and one month.
CA: [00:01:31] I am so thankful for this. Um, I don't think I've ever had the custom tumbler before, so
AE: [00:01:38] enjoy do not put it. Don't put it in the dishwasher. I don't have a dishwasher, so perfect, perfect. Perfect. But yeah, we're kind of trying to figure out what kind of merch people might be interested in.
So we're getting some samples made. We did post on our Instagram about some stickers and buttons. So we are just kind of trying to see what you guys are interested in. I.
CA: [00:02:00] I would, I mean, I'm a big fan of this tumbler and I know that this is not a thing that's currently on our list from March. Um, but maybe something adjacent, like we've got our culting adjacent.
We can have a tumbler adjacent. We can absolutely do merch adjacent.
AE: [00:02:15] We sure can. I want to go tank top. I want a good crop top. We should make crop top. We should totally make crop top.
CA: [00:02:23] Yeah, I have to say drop top somewhere on them. Yeah.
AE: [00:02:26] Somewhere. It's going to be an actual angel Ashley. Uh, if you could work on that.
Yeah.
CA: [00:02:31] Major shout out to actual angel Ashley, she made this happen.
AE: [00:02:36] Actual angel. I love, love, love
CA: [00:02:40] our, our logos and our branding. And like all of our weekly posts, she found our incredible font. And did all the design work? She sure did. She turned us into marble busts, like.
AE: [00:02:52] Yes girl. We were not, we were not born.
No, we did not wake up like that.
CA: [00:02:58] So, yeah. Shout out to the whole pod without an aud team. Yup.
AE: [00:03:02] Okay. There's three of what you had mentioned that you were, um, one of our OG pod without an aud discussion group members. Yeah. Dialon, uh, you're taking a dance class.
CA: [00:03:15] I am this week. I was just really feeling both of my dance classes.
So I take it. Like two adult dance classes, one's ballet, one's modern. And one of our original pod without an odd group members teaches our modern class. And she's so phenomenal. So shout out to her, shout out,
AE: [00:03:37] keep the shout-out train roll. You get a shout out and you get a shout out. Yep. Yep. Look, go move your chair.
CA: [00:03:46] You might have a shout out to who look under your chair. You might have a shout out.
AE: [00:03:52] Uh, I can see you were recording in my bedroom and we're socially distance across the King size bed and sitting on the floor. And like, so we were like officially a part of the furniture. Yeah. I can see like your eyes.
CA: [00:04:06] I've got one eyeball.
The other part of your, I mean, yeah. You know, I'm shorter than you, so I'm like peering over.
AE: [00:04:12] Yep. Yep. I actually, and I felt you came in, you looked like fucking Cinderella. You like walked through the door. I'm like in my gray sweat. Shout out, um, today, another
CA: [00:04:25] merch item we need to have eventually as gray sweat pants.
AE: [00:04:28] Oh God, I can't like I, before you got here, my, I was feeling a little bit of anxiety. My spoon count was running a little bit low and we were supposed to, you know, I was, today was going to be the day I was like, gonna look cute, get, you know, we're going to take some pictures. Nope. Did not happen. And then you couldn't find your cord to your mic.
So you had to run the office. And while you were gone, I took a shower so I can wash my hair. You look great. Thanks as beautiful as the day I met you. I'm an actual angel today.
CA: [00:05:01] So many angels on this team
AE: [00:05:03] sponsored by angels. All right, let's get into it. What do you got for me?
CA: [00:05:08] Do it. Okay, so are you ready? I am ready.
Okay. So today we're going to talk about porn.
AE: [00:05:19] Okay. They for sure Intersect just by the way, planting the seed,
CA: [00:05:26] how don't want to know yet. Okay. So I'm not talking about actual porn, I'm talking about inspiration porn. Okay. But first I want to tell you a story and you have definitely heard this story before. Okay. Then telling it to you anyways. Sure. So do you remember my former roommate?
Kay. Yes, who does not know that I'm telling this story, so we will be using shout out to Kay. Okay. So Kay. And I accidentally almost joined a religious biker cult, which we might have to cover in a future for sure. A whole separate thing. Yeah. It was a really weird time in both of our lives. Um, I was an undergrad and Kay had recently moved to Greensboro to be my roommate.
We both grew up going to church and like made friends with some people from. My undergrad program who invited us to their church,
AE: [00:06:16] they were from our sign language class,
CA: [00:06:18] right? They were, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I may have gone like once or twice without Kay. And then invited Kay to go to, because she, I think it was going to church more consistently than I was at that point in my life.
We get to church and the pastor of this church calls himself Sheepdog. Oh my God. And I have, Oh yeah. It's,
AE: [00:06:41] you know, you're a cult when.
CA: [00:06:44] There were some ex Hells Angels in this cult. And there, I mean, they probably still are. Yeah, it was, it was very interesting. I have no idea what the hell he was preaching on this particular Sunday, but like halfway through the service, he came over and he laid a hand on K.
No,
AE: [00:07:01] he did not. I should probably
CA: [00:07:03] clarify. K has a disability and is a wheelchair user. Yes. Oh my God. He put his hands on me. He like laid hands on her and fortunately like, Kay. And I had talked. Talked about this disability thing before, where like she grew up in a very religious community. Um, we're laying hands like to heal.
People is not unusual. It's just super uncomfortable and highly problematic. So anyways, my eyes get really wide and I look over and her eyes are really wide and we just kind of stare at each other, like, what the fuck do we do now? And he prayed for God to heal her and all these things. And at the end of the service, we like made a beeline for the door.
Or, and he stopped us and he like comes up to me and he says, I just want to thank you so much for bringing Kay here today. And then he like kneeled down and got eye to eye with Kay. And was like, thank you so much for inspiring everyone. You brought so much joy to this day. Oh. And looking back, like, there are a million things I wish I could have said.
Um, but instead we got to the car and then like just got out
AE: [00:08:12] of there. I laughed
CA: [00:08:14] the whole way home. She was like, God, I showed up at church. Yeah. I mean, I'm beautiful and flattered, but right.
AE: [00:08:23] So she's, she's saying, you know, like I didn't do anything to be thanked for essentially.
CA: [00:08:29] Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.
I'm actually kind of glad that this experience happened when it did, because otherwise we may have actually accidentally joined a cult, but no, neither of us ever went back, obviously. It's it made us really uncomfortable, just neither of us really had the language for why it made us super uncomfortable for them.
I mean, K's an amazing person. And the fact that she showed up and listened to a sermon is not the reason that she's amazing. Right. In fact, it might be the least interesting thing about her. Like I would have to agree. Yeah. We're going to jump back in time just a little bit from now, but after we almost joined the cult, so almost joining the cult would have been like 2011.
12, maybe. So we're going to go to 2014. Okay. And there is a woman named Stella young who gave a Ted talk called I'm not your inspiration. Thank you very much.
AE: [00:09:27] Yeah. Stella, she's fantastic. We
CA: [00:09:29] love Stella in this talk. Della, didn't share like any kind of laying of hand story, but she did share that the age of 15, someone in her town wanted to nominate her for a community achievement award, which is cool and awesome.
Um, except that she hadn't actually done anything. Oh, right. Like showing up at church does not mean that you are an inspiration. Sure. Existing in the world does not mean that you deserve a community service award. Sure. Stella also has a disability called osteogenesis imperfecta or brittle bone disease, a little background on brittle bone.
It's also called glass bones. And it's basically where your bones break really easily. There are four types, the most mild results and like maybe minor fractures. Or teeth that chip really easily. Okay. Um, and the most severe cases children often will die in utero or shortly, shortly after birth. Stella has type three, which results in a short stature, lots of breaks and the useful wheelchair.
Okay. So Stella is like chilling in her room, age 15, watching Buffy the vampire Slayer, pretty angsty as one does. And someone wants to nominate her for this award. And her parents were like, cool, but she has to do something first, like outside of having a disability, she just had.
AE: [00:10:43] Right. She's 15. She's not doing shit like she's like, none of us are at 15.
Exactly. She's just a normal kid. Wow. Well, good for her parents for, for, I appreciate that a lot for being
CA: [00:10:56] me too. And I think that there's, and we'll talk more about like different types of disability and how people treat people with disabilities. I mean, that's basically what a lot of this is about anyways, but I think that there's also like sometimes having supportive parents or parents.
Who don't, you know, further perpetuate, like your inability to do that. Gangs can really be a good Oh, push to, to do things. Yes. Sure. Okay. So later Stella did actually grow up to be a badass. At one point, she was teaching a high school class on legal studies. When someone in the class raised their hand and asked when she was going to start doing her speech.
Oh, this was like in the first week or two of school, I assume Stella realized pretty quickly that this youth had only ever experienced disabled people. As objects of inspiration and she, Oh,
AE: [00:11:47] okay. Okay. I see
CA: [00:11:49] if you've only ever had, I had a teacher up to high school who, you know, was not a wheelchair user, um, and all of a sudden you have a disabled teacher and the only time you've seen disabled teachers is in the auditorium or disabled peoples in the auditorium.
When they're telling you, you know how to be happy, right.
AE: [00:12:07] How to inspire you. If I can do it, you can do it. Yeah. Oh my God. I think about all those posters. Those high school posters about motivation, literally inspiration.
CA: [00:12:19] That's exactly where we're going with this. That is inspiration porn. That's exactly what this is.
Shit. So, um, she points out in her Ted talk for lots of us. Disabled people are not our teachers, our doctors, our manicurists, we are not real people. We are there to inspire. She goes on to say, um, we've been told the lie that disability is a bad thing. Capital B capital T bad thing. And. I live with a disability makes you exceptional and it's not, and it doesn't make you exceptional.
Wow. So Stella coined this term, um, inspiration porn, very deliberately, uh, because images and videos like the ones you were just mentioning objectify one group of people for the benefit of another group of people, Wikipedia defines inspiration porn as the portrayal of people with disabilities as inspirational solely, or in part on the basis of their identity.
Inspiration porn can be images, videos, and me. Teams or whatever else of disabled people that use to motivate able-bodied people suggesting that the disabled person can accomplish something then Shirley and able-bodied person can like, just like the posters and you know, the hallways at school that you're imagining.
And I'm going to be so bold as to take this a smidge further and say that it just reduces disabled people and their place in society to what they're able to do for able-bodied people. Yeah. Which is porn, like your objective. Define a population of people for your own
AE: [00:13:44] benefit. Yeah. This is blowing my mind right now.
I
CA: [00:13:47] so super fascinated by this subject, especially because like the language around this did not exist in an accessible way for a long time. I mean, you could talk about it intellectually about why all of these things are inappropriate and what they do to disabled people, but having a short and concise term it's really?
Yeah.
AE: [00:14:08] Yeah. I think it's also, people are constantly trying to. To put other people in boxes so that they're easily understood. And I think a lot of us, a lot of people in general use other people to make themselves feel better in so many capacities. Oh, I agree. And, um, but yeah, absolutely like literally making somebody so small to fit in such a small space in your mind for your own benefit.
I've never thought about it like that before. Yeah.
CA: [00:14:36] Yeah,
absolutely. So I'm going to give you a couple of examples. So the one that you were. Thinking of it's similar to one that I saw, which is a quote from Scott Hamilton, Alexander Hamilton, Scott, who says that the only disability in life is a bad attitude.
Oh. Except that Scott Hamilton is not a disabled person, but the picture is often like an individual who's visibly disabled. Like someone with limb differences or uses a wheelchair maybe has down syndrome as a wheelchair user. Stella says, quote, no amount of smiling at a flight of stairs has. Turned it into a ramp, huh?
Huh? It's not about your attitude. Right? Radiating a positive attitude at a TV. Won't make closed captions appear. Yeah. Preach, you know, to get the full scope of this. And really Stella is the expert here. So we will share her Ted talk and our notes for this week. Yes we will. And you need to go and listen immediately after finishing this episode, but seeing children running on carbon fiber legs or a child hearing for the first time, et cetera, is all actually pretty problematic when.
That's the only thing that you're recognizing them for. Yeah. Like I, so I, my Alma mater for grad school, um, is a university for the deaf and hard of hearing in DC called Gallaudet. And we're going to talk about Gallaudet in just a minute. Okay. Rams by sun
But when I first started going to the school, people kept sending me videos of kids hearing for the first time, either because they had hearing AIDS or cochlear implants and like everyone who. Sharing them with like, Oh, this is so sweet. Like, look at this person hearing. I mean,
AE: [00:16:16] there's like Sarah McLaughlin in the background of an angel SPCA shit.
That's literally what it is.
CA: [00:16:24] Yeah. Yeah. You're reducing that specific kid to that moment when they're no longer acting disabled and then you're watching it for your own benefit and it's supposed to inspire or motivate you or tell you something about
AE: [00:16:37] disability. I wonder about your own situation. Like why.
Thousand percent. I know I say that all the damn time, but I
CA: [00:16:45] mean, it, I think I said it then last episode, but things aren't so bad for you because at least you're not that person. Right. Like, thank goodness.
AE: [00:16:53] Right. I'm getting fired up. Seeing
CA: [00:16:56] Stella goes on to the social model of disability, which I am itching to cover, but I think we need to lay a little bit more groundwork first.
So we might get to that later. Um, in short it basically means looking at society as disabling a person and not the person being disabled. For needing to adapt to society. So the responsibility should not be on the person who's just trying to exist. No disabled people do have to overcome things, but it's not their bodies.
It's the barriers that society has put in place, inspiration, porn, others, disabled people, and portrays disability as a burden, as opposed to addressing the obstacles that disabled people face every day, it reduces a complex identity of a person to just looking at their disability and that they must always be inspirational.
AE: [00:17:41] Right. That's your purpose.
CA: [00:17:43] Yeah. Why else are you here? If not to inspire us and an article written by Lauren, Beller called inspiration porn. How to feel good imagery, domains, the disabled community and perpetuates harmful stereotypes, which is a very long name. Lauren shares a slogan that's commonly used within the disability advocacy community is advocates in all word advocacy, advocacy,
AE: [00:18:11] the other.
As
CA: [00:18:12] I'm reading it, it looks right saying it out loud. It does not sound right. Um, but the quote is, or the mantra is presume competence. And she says that with the right supports and services, we can all achieve success. This goes back to how disability really is a social construct and why we should view it through the lens of the social model of disability rather than the medical model, which presumes that something needs to be fixed about the person.
Yeah. Like those kid hearing for the first time videos. Yeah. So there's also this. A really interesting Venn diagram around disability that we will super share, but basically there are two circles and in one circle it says not disabled enough. And the other circle, it says too disabled and the middle is inspiration porn.
Um, so our society doesn't want to take care of people who are not disabled enough. We don't even see them most of the time, think back to spoon theory.
I was just
AE: [00:19:04] about to say, yeah, got it. Um, recognizably, visually disabled perhaps
CA: [00:19:10] or so minor. Like not minor because, because any disability is difficult to, to work through in our society, which is supremely abelist by not receiving appropriate supports and benefits.
People in this category might be seen as lazy, or they might lack suitable or accessible jobs or accommodations because they're just not. Disabled enough, or they might
AE: [00:19:35] not receive proper care because perhaps care takers or parents might not want them to be perceived as disabled. So they're not receiving that.
Oh, absolutely.
CA: [00:19:46] You know what they need, and then you have. Your two disabled group of people who are seen as a burden, like their independence is thwarted as a society. We want people like Goldilocks and the three bears wanted their porridge. Not too hot. Not too cold.
AE: [00:20:01] Yeah. Just right hashtag I know that's
CA: [00:20:04] right.
Yeah. One of my favorite things that Stella points out is that we should be learning from disabled people. Not that we're learning that we're luckier than them, but rather ways that they've adapted to overcome systems that just weren't built with them in mind and actually hinder their success. For everyday tasks, quote, learning strength and endurance, not against our body's under-diagnosis, but against a world that exceptionalizing and objectifies us, which is why the lie that we've been sold about disabilities is the greatest injustice we should be inspired by the way that someone does something.
Not the fact that they're alive is really what it boils down to. Sure. Okay. So back to Gallaudet, my Alma mater, they are working to advance architecture through something called universal design, which takes into consideration the needs of disabled people from the beginning, rather than modifying on the backend.
For example, choosing paint colors that contrast with skin tone so that deaf blind people or people with low vision are able to see better. Having wider hallways that are curved rather than like having narrow sharp turns. Yeah. Um, so that wheelchair users have better access to the space. And because you need more personal space when you're signing with someone versus communicating verbally or audibly.
So we'll probably cover universal design more
AE: [00:21:18] later, too, as like, while you were saying that I was thinking about how architecture. Is not, I mean, it's extremely ablest and yeah, I'm only concerned with being beautiful sometimes. Not even necessarily functional. Thank you. That's the word? Functional. Yeah. I mean, you see houses all the time and you're like, how does that even work?
And obviously regulations have changed, but back to the preventable or avoidable tragedies, like people won't make changes unless they're required to, you know what I mean? People are looking out, seeing how we can make things more accessible, especially if it's not quote right. Beautiful or conventionally attractive to a
CA: [00:22:06] yeah, no, I agree.
And we've all seen those architecture fails where like, they forget to like, they'll have an elevator, but it will be in a place that's not actually accessible. Like you have to go up steps to get to the elevator, right. Things like that, which are just. I mean, they're funny to look at, but how on earth did people that
AE: [00:22:26] was somebody's idea.
Somebody was somebody whole, whole idea. Yeah.
CA: [00:22:31] And thankfully the ADA has a mandate about places being accessible, especially those that are new construction. Yeah. They've grandfathered in a lot of older places. However, some. Like there's no money associated with the ADA. So the ADA is the Americans with disabilities act and it says that you have to have reasonable accommodations.
Right. Which basically means like, if you're deaf and you need to go to a doctor's appointment, then the doctor needs to provide an interpreter. Like that should not be your responsibility. It also means that places need to be wheelchair accessible and
AE: [00:23:10] it's accommodations within an undue hardship clause.
Yeah.
CA: [00:23:13] Right. But there's. Like no money associated with it. So a lot of these things, if businesses don't understand or don't want to provide, and the person who's requesting the services or supports doesn't know better, they might feel like they have to provide their own accommodations, which is also really frustrating.
Yeah. So another way we can dismantle the idea that disabled people, um, are inspirational is in addition to deconstructing the systems that hinder their access is to see more disabled people in professional roles that they may not have historically had access to due to lower expectations, poor educational opportunities and others silo barriers, prejudice, right?
Yeah, absolutely. The more, we see disabled teachers, doctors, and lawyers and people in every other trade. Then we'll begin to challenge some of these stereotypes that disenfranchise people with disabilities based on the lack of assumption or based on the assumption of ability or lack thereof. But like this is a two-way street.
I mean, how do you get more people into these roles without first changing stereotypes? How do you change stereotypes without seeing people in these roles? Right. So Shonda Rhimes. Oh, Shanda love my girl. Shonda has. historically written, incredibly diverse cast for her shows, including disabled people. And I, so Shonda Rhimes wrote like Grey's anatomy, scandal, station 19, private practice.
How to get away with murder, a few others...
AE: [00:24:45] what's that what's the network that's on. Is that CW?
CA: [00:24:48] I don't know Hulu, Netflix, but she has her own like Thursday night, Shaundaland, the last she had that line up.
AE: [00:24:56] How. She'd do it. She's
CA: [00:24:58] great question.
AE: [00:25:00] She doesn't sleep. I don't understand. Cause like all of her stuff is consistently good.
So she's either like handpicking the people on her team, which I'm sure she has at this point. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know how she's got the time for it.
CA: [00:25:13] That's an amazing question. She wrote a book called Year of Yes. That I read a couple of years ago. Really, really well done, but she's also how does she have time for a book.
She's also a single mom with three kids. Oh my God. Like I just, this woman is. Wonder woman,
AE: [00:25:28] how is she single.
CA: [00:25:31] I think she's single by choice. I don't know. I remember exactly, but I think that, that's what she said anyway. So back to Grey's anatomy, which I am rewatching for the hundredth time. I think it's like comfort show.
Yeah. Okay. So I don't love the way that she's portrayed every single disabled character who's ever graced the Grey's anatomy screen, but she has improved so much over the years. For example, she recently wrote a deaf doctor name. Named Lauren Riley. And they hired a deaf actress for this role named Shoshannah stern.
So not only are we seeing a deaf doctor portrayed on TV, but we're seeing a successful, highly accomplished deaf actress pointing this brilliant doctor,
AE: [00:26:11] super important. I think we've seen a lot of times where they're casting I'll think about
CA: [00:26:17] like, I don't know if you saw the movie, the movies Hush and Quiet Place.
AE: [00:26:22] I haven't seen either one of them because I am a terrible person.
CA: [00:26:25] Great. This is, I feel like it might be the first time. I've seen movies that you haven't seen. I feel like every other episode name, a movie, and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Okay. So in Hush a deaf writer, like escapes to the woods and the stocked by a serial killer.
Oh no. Um, and it's supposed to be terrifying. I think it was actually loosely, somehow connected to the Gallaudet murders that happened in like 2000, 2001.
AE: [00:26:50] Okay. I was about to make an into the woods joke, but
CA: [00:26:53] no, definitely not the which joke, maybe a, uh, Evil Dead joke. Oh, okay. That could be a good cult movie.
We need to add that to our list, but they did not hire a deaf actress to play this role. Yeah. Compared to a Quiet Place where there's a deaf girl and everyone on the set learned some sign language to be able to communicate with
AE: [00:27:13] her great,
CA: [00:27:15] a deaf actress to play this role. It was amazing. Yeah. And that's exactly what we should be doing.
Yeah. Sia has a new movie called Music. That's about an autistic girl and starring. Maddie Ziegler, who you may or may not know
AE: [00:27:30] It has 8% on rotten tomatoes, 8%
CA: [00:27:35] Score. Okay. I'm going to tell you what's so wrong about this movie. Okay. So it starring Maddie Ziegler, who is not autistic. The autism... the dancer.
Yeah. The autism community has been completely outraged for several reasons. First and foremost, Sia passed over an actual autistic actor for this role because the actor was too overwhelmed for the set. And see, I did not want to make the set accessible festival. Wow. The second and even more problem. Well, equally problematic.
There are scenes where the autistic character is being restrained and it is not appropriate. It is not done well. So I love Sia as much as much as the next person, but she fucked up. Up and the autism community is really encouraging people to boycott this movie. So the fact that it has an 8% on rotten tomatoes tells me that that works.
AE: [00:28:25] So this is really gonna piss you off that it's got some nominations.
CA: [00:28:30] No, yeah, absolutely will not be nominated for anything.
AE: [00:28:34] No, it does. I reject that it has golden globe award for best, most motion picture. Musical or comedy? What? Yes. Best actress for Kate Hudson. She's in it too.
CA: [00:28:47] Oh, okay. We're going to have to have a full blown conversation
AE: [00:28:51] after we stop recording. Call her. Girl.
What you doing? Girl, get your girl, girl. Get your girl. I love that girl gets your girl. Um, yikes. That. Is, uh, not great.
CA: [00:29:05] Now I'm going to be fuming about that for a few days.
AE: [00:29:07] Out of my way, instead of making it accessible for the actress who has autism, she chose to hire her. Uh, I mean, essentially Maddie is like her prodigy.
That's her.
CA: [00:29:24] Yeah. But her, um, creepy kind of way. Yeah. Yeah. But Maddie is also a child. Like Maddie. Not anymore, but when she first started working with Sia, Oh yeah, we're going to have to come back to all of that because this podcast is supposed to be an hour long. And at this point, if we go down that rabbit hole is going to be at least a five hour podcasts or not.
Well, okay. So I'm a few things I would like to tie up here at the end. Uh, number one, disability is not a bad word. I know that a lot of people are really uncomfortable with the word disability. And I think that if we view it from a way in which society has disabled people, like as a verb, not an adjective, then maybe that might be easier for some people to understand why disability is not a bad word.
And we can get into all the nuances of the word disability at a later time. There's also been a lot of noise within certain activist circles about using person-first rather than identit- first language over the past few years. And this is another conversation again for another episode. But for most of this episode, I chose to use identity first language, because many of the disabled folks that I know prefer identity-first language, and that's what Stella herself used.
At least one person referenced in this episode, prefers person-first language, which is also really valid. And for that specific person, I did use person-first language. The argument is about empowerment, dismantling ableism. Ultimately the words deaf, autistic, and disabled are not bad words. However, it is up to that person.
And it's not a bad idea to just ask whatever that person prefers. Yes. Lastly, shortly after giving this talk, uh, Stella young died at the age of 32. Mm. Yeah. In December of 2014, she was an Australian comedian journalist and disability rights activist. So.
AE: [00:31:13] Jesus also died at 32. So link up there.
CA: [00:31:21] I think good intersection
AE: [00:31:23] I think... don't quote me,
CA: [00:31:27] uh, don't quote you on the podcast where you were literally just recorded saying Jesus died at 32. I don't think I'm going to have to do that work.
AE: [00:31:35] Great. Very interesting topic. Thank you. That, that I, that I, that has forever changed the way that I think about it.
I think, you know, we're faced with a lot of, uh, content and information every single day and, uh, we process it as best we can, but hearing something outside of your normal box, I think is really important. Yeah. Um, and I am grateful for you because you always shine things, a new light in a new light. So thank you.
CA: [00:32:03] That's so sweet. Um, I just think that this is such a great opportunity to talk about why language matters and why so many of these topics matter. So
AE: [00:32:13] like not making assumptions about other people. Yeah. It's so problematic. We're all stuck in these little, you know, our own, think of your COVID bubble.
That's your people. Most likely they look like you and they are just like you, we need more diversity in all our lives.
CA: [00:32:29] Well, and I'm hoping that post COVID when we can actually go out and do things again. And then our circles will get a little bit bigger. Maybe not too much bigger. First time I've got too much anxiety.
So
AE: [00:32:41] So here I was thinking that we were going to have some intersectionality, but I, the answer is probably not. Okay. This is the week of the not, are you ready? Is your body ready? Because we are going to be talking. I just snapped. Well, we are going to be talking about Playboy.
CA: [00:33:03] Okay. Okay. Let's get into
AE: [00:33:05] this. Okay. Playboy magazine is described as quote, a men's lifestyle and entertainment magazine
CA: [00:33:14] in the same way that Scott Hamilton's. Poster is described as, inspiration
AE: [00:33:20] It was founded in 1953 by a man named Hugh Hafner. Oh, whew. Oh, this old thing. Um, his mother gave him the initial loan of $1,000 to begin the publication, which I think is like super interesting.
She's like, go live your dreams. So proud of you, such a supportive mom.
CA: [00:33:44] I love a good supportive mom. Also a thousand dollars. And what year do we know? 1953. Okay. So that's a little bit more than a thousand dollars today. Yeah. Also
AE: [00:33:54] there was more, I think it was like, well, yeah. Okay. We're crossing that bridge.
Cool. Cool. You graduated from the university of Illinois with a psychology major. Um, so maybe he possibly would have had a psychology podcast. Had that been the time he went to work in Chicago for Esquire magazine, and he also worked for a magazine called quote children's activities magazine.
CA: [00:34:18] I do not, I am uncomfortable.
Don't love it.
AE: [00:34:21] Don't hate it. Just an interesting fact. Um, so he worked as a circulation promotions manager. I've no idea what that is. Sounds like something with marketing, maybe like, yeah, basically he was like, how are we gonna, um, circulate the promotions? We're doing great. You heard it here. First works for us.
My God. This is where he began to plan his own magazine and he planned to call it stag party. Yikes. Yikes. Um, he formed a publishing corporation called HMH publishing and convinced an old friend named Elton Seller to join the team Elton joined to help. And his job was basically to find investors. So they had his mother's initial 1000% dollars.
And eventually they raised about $8,000, which was the initial cost. However, the men's adventure magazine called stag and form Hafner that basis. Basically they'd file a lawsuit if they use their name. So they tossed around a couple of ideas and I'm going to share them with you. Ooh. Okay. Top hat, huh?
Gentlemen, I think that one's taken too, sir. Oh,
CA: [00:35:33] satire
AE: [00:35:35] pan, P-A-N? P-A-N
CA: [00:35:37] as in pots and pans, like in pansexual.
AE: [00:35:40] Peter pan? All the above. Okay. I liked the pansexual one better. A bachelor. Oh,
CA: [00:35:46] that have been fitting. Okay.
AE: [00:35:48] Coming up. Okay. Before they finally sat on. Settled on Playboy. Ah,
CA: [00:35:55] I feel like they may have had another winner if they just kept going long enough.
I just don't love the name. Playboy.
AE: [00:36:01] Yeah. I mean it has some connotations. Yeah.
CA: [00:36:04] Yeah. Like stag party. I feel like set sets the bar at a certain level. Uh, and Playboy is about 52 notches. Below that.
AE: [00:36:14] Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like when, when you were thinking about names for your pet or your child name it, you name them and then all of a sudden you're you can't, you can't picture anything else.
Yeah. Once I start answering to it,
CA: [00:36:27] it's all done. Yeah. Game
AE: [00:36:28] over. The very first issue was published in December in 1953, the very first centerfold featured the living legend. Marilyn Monroe.
CA: [00:36:38] I love her. Yes. She's gorgeous.
AE: [00:36:42] So gorgeous. Um, what an icon, um, he chose what he thought was the quote sexiest image for the cover.
And these images were actually from a calendar shoot that she had already done. So they weren't even shot specifically for the cover of this magazine, which I thought was really interesting. It's interesting.
CA: [00:37:01] I mean, they only had like an $8,000 startup fund, so that's what you got could
AE: [00:37:05] not have her name's Mary, my pronouncing that correctly (talking over each other, difficult to understand) .
So basically these images were borrowed. But it was a huge success in the first issue sold out completely well entrepreneurship. And that's probably because the first copy costs 50 cents. So
CA: [00:37:21] they were really not looking for a high return on invest. Correct.
AE: [00:37:25] They're like take it basically free and original first edition sold for $5,000 in 2002.
Um, how do, uh, that's like 20 years ago? All so I don't even know what they're selling for
CA: [00:37:38] now.
pause. My brain had to process that 2002 is 20 years ago. Yeah.
AE: [00:37:45] Okay. So that's cool. Cool, cool. I feel old in 1954, Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit451 was featured in issues of Playboy in March, April and may as a cereal.
Isn't that crazy to read
CA: [00:37:59] that because I really love Ray Bradbury and it's a great book, but, um, yeah, I would love to get my hands on what that
AE: [00:38:06] I can just picture, like the person who's like itching to buy their Playboy to see the next installation Fahrenheit 451.
CA: [00:38:14] I was reading about Stephen King in his book on writing, and he talks about how he really got his start writing for magazines and like just submitting little stories from month to month.
Yeah. And that's
AE: [00:38:28] definitely a huge, it was really, really big thing. Yeah.
CA: [00:38:31] Yeah. I hate that it's not... maybe it's still is a big thing. I don't know. I don't read magazines,
AE: [00:38:36] short stories and I think features are right.
CA: [00:38:39] It still exists. Buy it for the boobs and keep it for the books.
AE: [00:38:42] Oh, put that on merch. A conspiracy theory began surrounding the cover of the magazine in 1955.
So hear me. I love a good conspiracy theory. So from 55 to 79 surrounding the P in Playboy, there were a certain number of stars. Okay. Okay. The theory was, depending on the number of stars was that was given, it was by Hugh Hefner himself. To a, how attractive the centerfold was or B the number of times that he slept with her or C how good she wasn't bed.
Oh
CA: [00:39:20] my gosh. Yes. So how many stars was the max? Do we know?
AE: [00:39:26] I think 13,
CA: [00:39:28] that's a really random number of stars.
It was
AE: [00:39:30] a lot, but it turns out that the stars actually indicated the advertising region either domestically or internationally. Oh, that's less interesting. Yeah, I'm actually pretty glad that that's yeah, very shameful.
And it goes back to all kinds of shit that we talk about. Just like putting it all back on the, on the centerfold,
CA: [00:39:53] you know, it's interesting already thinking a little bit about intersectionality. Just, I feel like the intersectionality for this one is in some ways super obvious and the ways that we're objectifying bodies.
Yeah. But to be so bold as to put it on the. Or assume that that's, what's on the cover of the magazine. Really. People
AE: [00:40:10] love me, people love. I mean, people are already intrigued by sex anyway. Yeah. That's why they're buying the magazine. Yeah. And you know, and everybody knows that Hugh Hefner had a very open life and had a lot of relationships, a lot of partners, um, polyamorous for the majority of his life.
So, I mean, it's not an, you know, it's not a far fetched thing to think, but so like it's. Advertising the magazine reached its peak in the 1970s. It wasn't until 1971 that they featured their first African-American centerfold. Her name was Doreen stern.
CA: [00:40:48] Who do we know her from? Anything? No, she, well,
AE: [00:40:52] no, not that I know of.
I didn't, when I. We'll have it on the Instagram while we can, but I didn't recognize her. Oh, okay. But due to similar magazines, kind of joining the same kind of theme here, access to other types of erotic image became really accessible. So
CA: [00:41:09] are we thinking like Hustler and Larry Flynt?
AE: [00:41:12] Yep. Larry Flint filthy.
So they had to rebrand a few times. Their goal then became to appeal to the 18 to 35 market. So they. Kind of narrowed their margins a little bit. They're like let's appeal to everyone. Well, right. 18 to 35 is kind of what they were going for. Quote, Christy Hefner daughter, a founder, Hugh Hefner joined Playboy in 1975 and became head of the company in 1988.
Yes, Christie,
CA: [00:41:39] I don't know that. I knew that he had a daughter and also how interesting that they had a female, like head of a company. They did have a lot
AE: [00:41:47] of female
CA: [00:41:48] creepy, but it's your dad's company.
AE: [00:41:51] And do you think so? Yeah. Well, she ends up, we really like Christie just foreshadowing. Oh, cool. She's a boss ass bitch.
Okay. I love that. Okay. Continue. She announced in December of 2008, that she would be stepping down from leading the company effective in January, 2009 and said that the election of Barack Obama as the next president had inspired her to give more time to charitable work and that the decision to step down was her own.
CA: [00:42:15] Good for her. All right.
AE: [00:42:17] We like Christie. She says, quote, just as this country is embracing change in the form of new leadership. I have decided that now is the time to make changes in my own life as well. She said
CA: [00:42:29] good for her. Yeah. All right. Big fan
AE: [00:42:31] big fan. I mean, 1988 to 2009. That's a long
CA: [00:42:36] that's a long
AE: [00:42:36] time.
Yeah. Also like riding the coattails of your dad and like, I'm sure she was a fantastic business person. Obviously he was super successful. Yeah. But understanding that she's like, look, I want to do something else that maybe like affects people in different ways. Yeah. Right. Yeah. In March, 2020, the CEO of Playboy announced that.
Spring 2020 edition would be the last printed issue of the magazine
CA: [00:43:01] spring 2020. So that's going like right into COVID correct. Um, people aren't reading as much exactly printed material anymore.
AE: [00:43:10] Yep. It would move its publication to exclusively online. This was due partially due to COVID-19. So now we know a little bit about the history of the magazine, but what I'm really interested in and as Hugh Hefner himself and also his girlfriends.
So that's all we're going to talk about. Great. Have, has been married three times and claims to have slept with over a thousand women.
CA: [00:43:35] One zero, zero, zero%.
AE: [00:43:39] Wow. Yes. He has had many girlfriends over his 91 years of life. You don't say. Um, and a lot of the info I got was from an insider article that I am about to discuss.
And by that, I mean, all of it. Um, so Hugh Hefner married his first wife. Mildred Williams in 1949,
CA: [00:44:00] Hugh and Mildred. Oh, what a great old timey couple's name?
AE: [00:44:05] They met at Northwestern university. Both parties were unfaithful in this marriage, which is a familiar theme that we'll see throughout Hugh Hefner's relationships.
Um, they stayed together for a decade and had two children.
CA: [00:44:18] Okay. So this is, uh, Christy's mom. Chrissy's mom. Yep.
AE: [00:44:22] After dated Barbara Lynn Klein from 1969 to 1976 and convinced her to change her name to Barbi Benton. Oh, the O G. The O G, which I love the name. Barbie. I love the name, Barbara I can't help it,
CA: [00:44:36] my grandmother's name is Barbara.
Is it? It is Barbara Ann.
AE: [00:44:40] Barbara Benton, Barbara Ann Benton appeared on the cover of Playboy in 1969, 1970, 1972 and 1985. So she was a favorite fan family. A lot of stars around her name. If you know what I mean after dating Hafner she married real estate developer, Greg Grado in 1979. Next we've got Shannon Tweed, Shannon Tweed dated Hugh Hafner briefly after being named the 1982 playmate of the year.
Shannon dated Hafner until she started dating the Kiss singer Gene Simmons. Oh, okay. Who she married in 2011 younger model, two children together. And also they had that reality TV show. Did you ever see that?
CA: [00:45:23] I did not. You know, I'm not the reality TV junkie you are
AE: [00:45:26] Get with the program. This was like post, like Rock of Love post,
like I Love New York. This was some, this was like actual good TV. I think the last time
CA: [00:45:37] I watched reality TV, it was like with
AE: [00:45:40] me. Yes. Oh, I love it so much. It's got a special place in my heart. Carrie Lee is next. She lived with and dated Hafner for five years in the 1980s before leaving his ass. What's her name?
Carrie Lee. Carrie Lee. How does she spell it? C A R R I E. Oh, Darn. Okay. Why was that going to be you?
CA: [00:46:01] Uh, not in this lifetime. Um, there are just so many ways to spell Carey and I got to catch them all.
AE: [00:46:09] So Carrie filed three lawsuits against Hefner after they broke up, including one for publishing unauthorized photos of her.
Oh no, you know, She described, she described the Playboy mansion as a cult. Add that to the list. Yep. She described that to the Washington post in 1999. She says, quote, when you live in an environment like that, that's so different from how other people live. You start forgetting who you are and what you believe in.
Sounds like a cult. Yeah. Sounds like it. If the shoe fits
CA: [00:46:44] that looks like a cult and it smells like a cult it must be a cult.
AE: [00:46:47] Right. Can't go through it. Can't go under it. Got it.
So close, like the song hotel, California mirrors on the ceiling, pink, champagne on ice. We're all just prisoners here. You know, you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. It took me a few years after I did leave to wipe it out of my head. Wow.
CA: [00:47:12] Good for her for talking about it.
AE: [00:47:14] And that had to have been straight to the Washington post.
Got herself a fat check. Yup. Unloaded all of her. Baggage. Good. I hope she's doing well. I hope so too. I wish Carrie the best. So we're still in the eighties. All right.
CA: [00:47:29] So we've got 40 years go .
AE: [00:47:31] Kimberly Conrad became Hefner's second wife when she was 26 in 1989. Yikes. Hefner was 63. Nope, Conrad. And Hefner had two children, Martin and Cooper.
Which both sound like dog names. So they were separated in 1998, but Hugh Hefner waited until 2009 to to file for divorce. So that actually file for divorce.
CA: [00:47:56] That's like 11 years,
AE: [00:47:57] 10 years. You keep asking me about math it's unsure.
CA: [00:48:01] And so sorry.
AE: [00:48:01] So he cited long time reconcilable differences. Yeah. I mean, after you waiting a decade, yeah.
It's 11 years. You know what it meant? Um, from the time Hefner and Conrad separated in 1998, he dated a multitude of playmates, including actress, Brandy Rodrick.
CA: [00:48:19] What was she in? Do we know her?
AE: [00:48:21] I think she was, was she in, um, Baywatch? Oh, maybe till the daily beast that he dated several women at the same time, along with Roderick for the next two years, quote, almost at the same time I met a pair of twins named Sandy and Mandy Bentley.
Hafner told the daily beast of his relationship after his second one. I have a quote for the next two years. My live in girlfriends were Brandy, Mandy and Sandy, which reads like bad fiction, but it was true. End quote,
CA: [00:48:50] I was just thinking like, you know, when parents give all their kids names that start with the same letter or they all sound the same.
And then you just go through every name on your list,
AE: [00:49:00] My parents do that regardless, they say the dog's name before mine
CA: [00:49:04] My mom calls me by her little sister's name. Oh, really? Yep. But that's how I imagine like, living with. Three people who all have almost the exact same name. Yep. Just point to them. You yeah.
AE: [00:49:15] Yeah. Yeah. They probably look really similar.
He totally had a type. Oh, for sure. This is also like we're getting into the early two thousands. Now this was an, a very specific aesthetic was popular. It was the bleach blonde hair and like clown boobs. Yeah.
CA: [00:49:32] Barbie. Yep. Barbie was very in right now.
AE: [00:49:36] It was a Barbie world. Marie Jordan was among one of the seven women Hafner dated in the early two thousands.
So Heifner made Tina Marie Jordan, the playmate of the month in March, 2002, when Hafner and Roderick broke up, he added the bigger rotation of girlfriends, including Isabel St. James quote. When the relationship with Brandy broke up, I added more girls said Hafner in 2011 interview with the daily beast, um, quote, at some point it was up to seven.
Isabelle. Isabella was one of those seven. St. James moved into the Playboy mansion in 2002 and lived there for two years. Then we hit a new era because here come the famous Holly Madison, Bridget Marquette, and Kendra Wilkinson. Oh, them . The trio were featured on ease the girls next door, a reality TV show.
And as your blink stare suggests you've not seen it. I have not seen it. Okay. It was actually a really. I mean, it was the first chance people got to see into the Playboy mansion, which is like this thing that everybody always has fantasies about. And you hear about these crazy parties, right. And the girls do really, really well on camera.
However, I was watching a documentary recently on E I think that was just like about reality TV in general. Um, and it was stated in there somewhere that the girls didn't get along really, and that they were kind of like really argumentative off camera. And very separate. They'd never really bonded. And that they were really concerned about camera time.
CA: [00:51:12] I wonder if some of that is also related to this being like a cult and maybe forming some kind of trauma connection or trauma bond with Hugh.
AE: [00:51:22] Well, no, you don't have anything else in common with these people other than they're dating the same guy. Yeah.
CA: [00:51:28] Who is ancient.
AE: [00:51:29] So Holly Madison was like his main girlfriend.
They shared a room, they shared a bed and then. Bridget and Kendra were kind of like the, the secondary girlfriends. Unfortunately for Molly, you could tell that like, she really wanted to marry him and she's, she's spoken out now with some things we'll talk about in just a second, but, you know, he was kind of, you know, he'd already been divorced twice.
So, um, I think he was a little bit hesitant. Kendra is now married to Philadelphia Eagles, Hank basket. Oh, good for her. And they have two kids after he broke up with all these three girls or they left. He dated 20 year old twins, Carissa and Christina Shannon, who appeared on the final season of the girls next door.
The twins moved out of the Playboy mansion and into the playmate house in 2010, the two claim the move was because they were dating younger
men, hopefully
CA: [00:52:21] different younger men. If you imagine dating the same person as your sibling.
AE: [00:52:25] No, I can't. No,
CA: [00:52:28] no. Uh, Nope. Nope. Hard pass, big, hard pssa.
AE: [00:52:32] Full stop. At the same time he was dating Crystal Harris.
Who would eventually become his third wife.
CA: [00:52:39] So he did get married a third time. Sure did. At the age of 250,
AE: [00:52:44] that is correct. After you became engaged to a 24 year old Harris in December of 2010, though, she broke off their engagement before their planned 2011 wedding. The two were eventually wed in December of 2012.
And I like it since Hefner's death. Harris has deleted her Instagram and her Twitter account has been set to private. It's been reported that she will inherit nothing of Hefner's fortune due to their prenup. There has been a common overarching theme for many of these women stating that they were isolated at the mansion and financially dependent on a Hugh Hefner for everything.
This caused a huge power dynamic shift in eventually who was in control. Holly Madison wrote a book about her experience and described her relationship to be abusive. Hugh Hefner died at the age of 91 and September of 2017. And that is Playboy and that Chicago,
CA: [00:53:40] I, so I only have known about like Playboy and Hugh Hefner peripherally.
Like I've never actually given them a lot of thought. Yeah. So I feel like I learned so much. Yeah. I think also there's a weird intersection here between our two topics. Right.
AE: [00:53:56] I think you definitely hit it pretty on the head about the objectification. Yeah.
CA: [00:54:01] I think that that's a lot, all of it. Question Mark. Do.
AE: [00:54:06] No. I mean, using somebody else for your own gina. Yeah. Of really, I mean,
CA: [00:54:11] objectifying people and making them, you you've said the word small earlier, but making them so small that they are only what you can see. Yeah. And now they're no longer complex and intricate humans with experiences.
AE: [00:54:27] And I will say, say there is a difference that we do need to talk about is that in your section, we are, you were discussing people who did not give consent.
Right to be objectified or in the Playboy, you know, being in Playboy is an honor. And those women chose to be models. I mean, this is like a really big deal for them. The hear half nurse situation. And I did combine them together, but being a girlfriend as opposed to being a Playboy or a playmate, I mean, those are two very different things.
Right. So
CA: [00:54:58] well, and I think, I mean, looking at the objectification of women, like going back to whichever episode it was that we talked about. Where we got catcalled by a nine year old, like what does our society tell us as women is acceptable for men to do and or say, and also several people mentioned the Playboy mansion being similar to a cult.
So how much of this is them truly giving consent? Which I, and I hear you say that a lot of this is a big deal for them, and they're proud of, you know, being connected to Playboy. And I just don't know enough about it, but I assume that there's some level of objectification still happening, if not by Hugh Hefner and the Playboy mansion, at least by other people who are observing.
AE: [00:55:49] Yeah. But I mean, I, you know, I think, I think of models and burlesque and people who are strippers and, you know, that's all it's general. Yeah. It's all a conscious decision and it's all about the motivation behind it. I don't think we should assume as negative. It's great. Positive and. You know, there's a different culture around being a model in Playboy and then being in the culture of the Playboy mansion, where you're living that sort of really important distinction kind of, of, of, um, groomed by Hafner, so to speak, you know, you can easily be in Playboy and, you know, leave at the end of your shift and all the benefits, you know, but I think you're right about the, the women who were in the house stuck there and be in that were
CA: [00:56:34] trapped.
Yeah. I think that there's some really interesting parallels. I'm like always so curious what other people think and what our audience who may or may not be listening is thinking. Um, so if you have any other ideas about this, because I feel like our topics are so uniquely connected this week, like it's not, there's definitely a major overlap.
It's just identifying it and processing all of it. That might take longer than 45 seconds in the few minutes, given ourselves.
AE: [00:57:06] For this piece of our podcast, but I think that what we have done I think is, is good and Oh, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.
CA: [00:57:14] Well, cool. I am so excited for this episode and how wild that we picked.
I know Playboy and inspiration porn
AE: [00:57:22] for, I, I'm always also curious and I would really like to hear from the listeners in our DMS or at our, uh, podwithoutanaud@gmail.com. Do we like when our topics intersect? Because I think it's really fun. Like when they genuinely. They intersect by accident. Yeah. Like this, like when you first said it, I was like, girl, we got it.
I keep snapping, but we nailed it. You know? So I don't know if it's more interesting or more or less interesting whether our topics intersect or not. So let us know what you think.
CA: [00:57:52] That's a great question. We should also post that question on our Instagram page. That will be so much fun.
AE: [00:57:57] I will do that.
Cool. Sure. All right guys. Thank you so much for listening. We love you all. Add us on Instagram, send us an email at podwithoutanaud@gmail.com. Check us out on the worldwide web at podcastwithoutanaudience.com. We want to hear from you all because we actually have an audience. Um, but again, thank you so much for listening.
And if you support us blink twice,
CA: [00:58:23] and if you're out there, keep listening.
AE: [00:58:26] Thank you for listening to podcast without an audience. Find us on social media at pod without an aud, you can find us on Instagram or Facebook or find us on the web podcastwithoutanaudience.com. Shoot us an email podwithoutanaud@gmail.com.
Our cover art is created by an actual angel. Ashlie Acevedo our music is by Zach Smith and Ted Oliver editing by Jacob Beeson.
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Thanks.